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[Chat(Android)] Mixed troop combat is not the same as single troop combat

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#1
Posted on 2017-05-10 15:49:06 | Show thread starter's posts only

I've been called a heretic for simply trying to point out that mixed troop combat does not behave as you expect it or you see watching the video animations.
Before you misunderstand the whole point of this topic, i'm not saying t1 meat shield is useless, i'm simply trying to point out that combat is not always as you imagine it, and more like as IGG made it.
Here is a simple proof, when 50 infantry will do no damage at all, but will contribute to defense. I know some of you guys find this absolutely normal, but not everyone is as smart as you smart guys
Again, simply trying to point out that more troops does not always mean more damage in mixed troop combat ( note that infantry is hard counter for ranged )
Edit: Since some people still manage to misunderstand this topic. Infantry counters archers. Common sense would imply that in the second report you get more deaths than in first report. But you have same amount of deaths in both reports( 132 wounded + 88 dead ). That is why i said it's not always what you expect. Infantry only contributed to defense and not attack.

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#2
Posted on 2017-05-10 17:55:59 | Show thread starter's posts only

It's worth noting that in the 2nd battle report, you had more troops than you did in the 1st. Not only does the 2nd battle report have more troops, but also a meatshield included, so it is difficult to determine what caused the results to be what they are.

Try changing only one variable at a time in order to get more conclusive tests.

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#3
Posted on 2017-05-11 00:58:55 | Show thread starter's posts only

Noting out : This is a battle report of a camp attack in a controlled environment. The 2 accounts are exactly the same upgrade wise. The second battle report has extra 50 infantry that will provide 0 attack power to the battle report

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#4
Posted on 2017-05-13 19:25:38 | Show thread starter's posts only

I had a little limited resources but this is what came up with,it isn't NOT the same

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#5
Posted on 2017-05-13 19:56:42 | Show thread starter's posts only

You have 50 inf in there,so that's 125 archers since counters are 2.5x as good, that'd imply 1.25k archers vs 1k archers,there shows differently and 858 vs 780 losses for 50 but the attacker ended up losing the same amount as before, 78 troops survived more but no more kills for 125 archers on 1k archers,1/8 of it 1/8 of 780 is just under 100 but no more kills

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#6
Posted on 2017-05-14 02:51:32 | Show thread starter's posts only

Mixed troops will always have different results than same troops even if numbers Are same. As different troops have different strength and weaknesses against the troops in question. Grunts are prone to hunt by far row archers but if archer are not reinforce d by front row grunts or calvary battle will go in different direction. Scouting Enemy is important to make troops composition that will help to make maximum damage. Heros used during attack or defence also inc attack or health benefits.
Mit21

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Amit
#7
Posted on 2017-05-14 13:05:04 | Show thread starter's posts only

@Dareyoutry You are obviously not making a good test. You should have the same amount of survivors in one test. You have 861  versus 632. You do not use 2 account with the same amount of research or army modifiers. Ofc you will not get the same results
Infantry is the counter to Archers. So no, 1000 archers should have more deaths not less deaths. That is what common "counter" would imply. But in this simple test i tried to show you that it's not always what you expect.

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#8
Posted on 2017-05-14 23:42:40 | Show thread starter's posts only

Basically, common knowledge is that using more troops will have more kills especially if you have a unit to counter the enemy units. In this case, he used infantry to counter archers.

1st test:
1000 archers versus 1000 archers yields the same results thereby proving that both accounts are identical. It also shows that 220 total are either wounded or killed.

Test 2:
1000 archers versus 50 infantry-1000 archer combo

A) The interesting part is that the 1000 archers still had a total of 220 wounded/killed even though the enemy had more troops. This is the same wounded/killed amount as the 1000 vs 1000 archers.

B) The guy with the 50 extra infantry units lost less troops but didn't kill any more troops despite using counter troops (infantry units)

1st Conclusion:
The common knowledge is that the 1000 archers should have had more wounded/killed than 220 units since we had more troops (adding the 50 infantry) This is considering the fact that we even added troops that should have countered archers (infantry)

To clarify: We had more troops and even added the counter troops yet we didn't kill more. This test shows that our common knowledge on how the combat works might be flawed.

2nd conclusion:
Infantry didn't add any attack power but significantly boosted defense due to less casualties but no increase in wounded/kills. Again this is contrary to what is common knowledge.

Tudi, did I get it right?

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#9
Posted on 2017-05-15 04:59:45 | Show thread starter's posts only

How did you account for battle fury?
What are your battle stats on both accounts?
What was the might reduction on each battle to both accounts?

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#10
Posted on 2017-05-16 05:44:31 | Show thread starter's posts only

OK and to follow up a little on this without information.

It's safe to say that the base figures for ATK, DEF and HP are not equal.  DEF must be much lower than ATK otherwise equal armies would do minimal damage/kills to each other.

So if we said that a T1 troop had 0.75 ATK, 0.75 HP and 0.5 DEF we'd be somewhere in line with your figures.  The reason I did that is it's my gut feeling that the 2 might figure gets broken down proportionally.

The other point is that because we don't really know what these figures are.  It's very difficult to also work out how formation advantages apply.  Do they impact only a single stat (modulating ATK)/multistat (improving worsening ATK & DEF)?  Does weak against just reduce defense?  Does strong against improve attack?  Any combination is possible.  Does formation improve the base figure before boosts or after?

There's a lot of detail here that is very hard to establish.  Partly because it's exceptionally difficult to make small incremental changes to only a single stat.  

Nerf.

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