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[Chat(Android)] Estimating combat troop counts

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#1
Posted on 2017-05-04 03:53:06 | Show thread starter's posts only

Combat is far from simple. I've spent quite a few days getting more than simple mythological facts about it. Here are some info :
- Overpowering enemy is not a linear thing. A few percent of troop count can go a long way. Always try to outnumber your enemy
- Combat is simetrical. It's not just what you counter. It matters what enemy team counters also
- Countered troops can outperform non countered troops by a ratio of 16x. Nothing else matters as much as scouting and countering enemy squad
- The most beneficial combat modifier ingame you can get is army setup ( infantry phalanx, cavalry, ranged ... ). The best is to order your troops to counter the enemy setup. Infantry will counter ranged, Ranged will counter cavalry, cavalry will counter infantry. Try to use army setup that will counter all enemy squads
- Troops have stats. Infantry is better at defense. Ranged scales best with attack modifiers. Cavalry is medium tanky and medium scales with attack. Here is an example how a fight scales with combat modifiers
1000 infantry  vs 1000 infantry = 780 infantry survived vs 780 infantry
1000 infantry  vs 1000 infantry = 788 infantry survived vs 728 infantry(attacker has 20% atk boost)
1000 infantry  vs 1000 infantry = 792 infantry survived vs 780 infantry(attacker has 20% def boost)

1000 ranged vs 1000 ranged = > 780 ranged survived  versus 780
1000 ranged vs 1000 ranged = > 788 ranged survived  versus 732( attacker has 20% atk boost )
1000 ranged vs 1000 ranged = > 784 ranged survived  versus 780( attacker has 20% def boost )

1000 cavalry vs 1000 cavalry = > 750 cavalry survived  versus 750
1000 cavalry vs 1000 cavalry = > 758 cavalry survived  versus 690( attacker has 20% atk boost )
1000 cavalry vs 1000 cavalry = > 756 cavalry survived  versus 748( attacker has 20% def boost )

- Boosting attack also helps you survive more troops
- investing in attack when choosing items and gems is more beneficial than investing in defense or health. If you take a look at the examples posted above :
for infantry 1 attack is worth 5.34 defense points
for ranged 1 attack is worth 14.78 defense points
for cavalry 1 attack is worth 9.14 defense points
Health is a about 2 times more important than defense when investing into stats.
You can also see this if you check heroes the game has. They either provide 30% attack or 50% defense and 50% HP. IGG probably estimated in avg case 1 attack is worth 3 defense or health.
- here is a list of possible combat boosters at this state of the game. This list keeps changing :
items : +840%
Jewels : +480%
Good scouting + using counter army composition : +1600%
research per troop type : 135% Atk + 135% def + 135% Hp = +405%
research per army : 135% Atk + 135% def + 135% Hp = +405%
research per army 2: 30% Atk + 30% def + 30% Hp = +90%
talents troop specific : 5 + 7 + 13 + 13 + 10 + 53 + 87 + 87 = +275%
baracks : 10% def
infirmary : 5% hp
manor : 2% atk
From buildings : 10% def + 40% hp + 16% atk
buffs : 20% atk + 5% atk ( battle fury) + 20% def
hero imprisoned : 30% atk
Hero composition :
for cavalry : death knight + child of light + icarus + rose + sage = +380%
rose 70% + steambot 130% + barbarian 105% + death knight 100% + child 80% = 485%
for ranged : alice + tracker + black crow + rose + goblin = 300%
mastercook 105% + ethereal 105% + tracker 80% + petite devil 80% + snow queen 80% = 450%
for infantry : grim wolf 105% + big guy 80% + oath keeper 80% + demon slayer 80% + songstress 70% = 415%
mixed combo if tank line does not fall : steambot 130% + Barbarian 105% + songstress 70% + Lore weaver 70% + grim wolf 30% ( + 25% ) = 430%
mixed combo if cav tank line falls : steambot 130% + Barbarian 105% ( + 25% ) + songstress 70% ( *2 ) + Lore weaver 70% ( *2 ) + grim wolf 105% ( + 25% ) = 670%
mixed combo if cav + inf tank line falls : steambot 130% + Barbarian 105% ( + 25% * 2 ) + songstress 70% ( *3 ) + Lore weaver 70% ( *3 ) + grim wolf 105% ( + 25% * 2 ) = 860%
Endgame best case army boost = 4600% ( in theory 1 trop beats 46 enemy troops ... )
watchtower : -10% eatk
enemy debuffs : -10% atk -10% def -10%hp = -40% * 4600% = 1840% ..... 4600 + 1840 = 6440% army boost when endgame attacks non endgame
- You can get about 600% army boost by investing into monster hunting. Might not want to neglect it
- You can get about 480% army boost by investing guild coins into jewel chests. Might not want to neglect it
- You can get up to 66% - 460% ( enemy debuff is OP ) army boost by upgrading your buildings to lvl 25. You might want to save up a few gems as a free player for golden hammers.
- based on stat importance. Here is a list of items you can get with monster hunter and gathering, ordered by stat point score : QueenHoneycomb( 120 score ),ArmorOfTheAbyss( 85 score ), AquaAnemone( 80 score ), Dragon'sBite( 70 score ), WinterStompers( 61 score ), Harbringer( 60 score ), CorruptedBoots( 60 score ), TerrorBlade( 57 score ), BloodStained( 56 ), WyrmLantern( 55 ), GrimmyPlate( 49 ), FrostwingShield( 40 ), IvoryChoker( 40 ), FrostwingBoots( 30 )
Now for the real numbers. Estimating troop type is very hard. But just to give you a hint about squads and their combinations, here is a table using troops of t1 without any boosts at all:

AttackerDefenderAtackers deadDefenders deadAttackers survivedDefenders survived
100 Infantry 100 Infantry 20 Infantry 20 Infantry 80 Infantry 80 Infantry
100 Infantry 100 Cavalry 54 Infantry 8 Cavalry 46 Infantry 92 Cavalry
100 Infantry 100 Archer 4 Infantry 64 Archer 96 Infantry 36 Archer
100 Infantry 100 Trebuchet 56 Trebuchet 100 Infantry 44 Trebuchet
100 Archer100 Cavalry 8 Archer54 Cavalry 92 Archer 46 Cavalry
100 Archer100 Archer 20 Archer20 Archer 80 Archer 80 Archer
100 Archer100 Trebuchet 8 Archer44 Trebuchet 92 Archer 56 Trebuchet
100 Cavalry100 Trebuchet 2 Cavalry58 Trebuchet 98 Cavalry 42 Trebuchet
100 Infantry 100 Archer100 Cavalry100 Infantry 100 Archer 100 Cavalry 66 Infantry 14 Cavalry66 Infantry 14 Cavalry 34 Infantry 100 Archer 86 Cavalry 34 Infantry 100 Archer 86 Cavalry
100 Infantry 50 Infantry 50 Archer 9 Infantry 27 Infantry 91 Infantry 23 Infantry 50 Archer
100 Infantry 50 Archer 50 Cavalry 24 Infantry 12 Cavalry 76 Infantry 50 Archer 38 Cavalry
100 Infantry 50 Infantry 50 Cavalry 34 Infantry 23 Infantry 66 Infantry 27 Infantry 50 Cavalry
99 Infantry 33 Infantry 33 Archer 33 Cavalry 18 Infantry 26 Infantry 81 Infantry 7 Infantry 33 Archer 33 Cavalry
100 Cavalry50 Infantry 50 Archer 27 Cavalry50 Infantry 73 Cavalry 0 Infantry 50 Archer
100 Cavalry50 Infantry 50 Cavalry 13 Cavalry24 Infantry 16 Cavalry 87 Cavalry 26 Infantry 34 Cavalry
100 Cavalry50 Archer 50 Cavalry 36 Cavalry24 Cavalry 64 Cavalry 50 Archer 26 Cavalry
99 Cavalry33 Infantry 33 Archer 33 Cavalry 23 Cavalry16 Infantry 17 Cavalry 76 Cavalry 17 Infantry 33 Archer 16 Cavalry
100 Archer50 Infantry 50 Archer 38 Archer8 Infantry 62 Archer 42 Infantry 50 Archer
100 Archer50 Infantry 50 Cavalry 33 Archer8 Infantry 67 Archer 42 Infantry 50 Cavalry
100 Archer50 Archer 50 Cavalry 10 Archer50 Cavalry 90 Archer 50 Archer 0 Cavalry
99 Archer33 Infantry 33 Archer 33 Cavalry 24 Archer9 Infantry 75 Archer 24 Infantry 33 Archer 33 Cavalry
200 Archer200 Infantry 128 Archer12 Infantry 72 Archer 188 Infantry
200 Cavalry200 Infantry 16 Cavalry108 Infantry 184 Cavalry 92 Infantry
200 Archer200 Cavalry 16 Archer108 Cavalry 184 Archer 92 Cavalry


Here is a list of items you might want to use for specific army compositions. Note that atk has been boosted by 5 and HP by 2.5 to compensate for importance. Use this list only to know what type of monsters hunt first ( better score = better bang for the buck ). The list of items will change as IGG will keep adding new item sets...
A lot of items can be replaced to obtain a very similar score. You do not need to insist on this exact same setup. It's just for the lasy people.
Although single composition armies have lower gearscore, mixed army does receive penalties for non main fighting squads. Don't let 1300 single type score fool you compared to 2400 mixed army score
=====================================================================================================================================================
*Army composition : infantry(defending) + cavalry(attacking)+ ranged(attacking)
Looking for item combinations to maximize stats : catk ratk ihp idef iatk

Best item set score you can get by heavy monster hunting + buying item packs:
0)item name BumbleHelm in slot helm from set QueenBee, score 350
1)item name HedonicCuiras in slot body from set BonApeti, score 325
2)item name StormTasset in slot feet from set TidalTitan, score 345
3)item name Skullcrusher in slot mhand from set HellDrider, score 300
4)item name EternalCodex in slot ohand from set GrimReaper, score 275
5)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 287.5
6)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 287.5
7)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 287.5
Item set attribute summary : idef +45%, iatk +650%, ratk +1000%, catk +500%, ihp +262.5%, Total army boost = 2457.5 %

Best item set if you are a casual player that hardly spends money on the game :
0)item name BloodStained_Gargantua in slot helm from set 2, score 40
1)item name ArmorOfTheAbyss_Helldrider in slot body from set 2, score 80
2)item name QueenHoneycomb in slot feet from set 2, score 120
3)item name FieryTomahawk in slot mhand from set 1, score 95
4)item name LunarScimitar in slot ohand from set 1, score 72.5
5)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 80
6)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 80
7)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 80
Item set attribute summary : idef +5%, iatk +175%, ratk +145%, catk +295%, ihp +27.5%, Total army boost = 647.5 %

=====================================================================================================================================================
*Army composition : infantry(attacking) + cavalry(defending)+ ranged(attacking)
Looking for item combinations to maximize stats : chp cdef catk ratk iatk

Best item set score you can get by heavy monster hunting + buying item packs:
0)item name BumbleHelm in slot helm from set QueenBee, score 350
1)item name Firewall in slot body from set MechaTrojan, score 287.5
2)item name StormTasset in slot feet from set TidalTitan, score 345
3)item name KrakensAnchor in slot mhand from set TidalTitan, score 282.5
4)item name EternalCodex in slot ohand from set GrimReaper, score 325
5)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 250
6)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 250
7)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 250
Item set attribute summary : cdef +20%, iatk +750%, ratk +700%, catk +675%, chp +195%, Total army boost = 2340 %

Best item set if you are a casual player that hardly spends money on the game :
0)item name BloodStained_Gargantua in slot helm from set 2, score 68
1)item name ArmorOfTheAbyss_Helldrider in slot body from set 2, score 87.5
2)item name QueenHoneycomb in slot feet from set 2, score 120
3)item name FieryTomahawk in slot mhand from set 1, score 95
4)item name LunarScimitar in slot ohand from set 1, score 72.5
5)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 80
6)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 80
7)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 80
Item set attribute summary : cdef +8%, iatk +175%, ratk +145%, catk +295%, chp +60%, Total army boost = 683 %

=====================================================================================================================================================
*Army composition : infantry(attacking) + cavalry(attacking)+ ranged(defending)
Looking for item combinations to maximize stats : catk rhp rdef ratk iatk

Best item set score you can get by heavy monster hunting + buying item packs:
0)item name BumbleHelm in slot helm from set QueenBee, score 350
1)item name Firewall in slot body from set MechaTrojan, score 287.5
2)item name StormTasset in slot feet from set TidalTitan, score 345
3)item name NectarOrb in slot mhand from set JadeWyrm, score 317.5
4)item name EternalCodex in slot ohand from set GrimReaper, score 275
5)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 287.5
6)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 287.5
7)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 287.5
Item set attribute summary : rdef +20%, iatk +625%, ratk +825%, catk +675%, rhp +292.5%, Total army boost = 2437.5 %

Best item set if you are a casual player that hardly spends money on the game :
0)item name BloodStained_Gargantua in slot helm from set 2, score 40
1)item name ArmorOfTheAbyss_Helldrider in slot body from set 2, score 75
2)item name QueenHoneycomb in slot feet from set 2, score 120
3)item name FieryTomahawk in slot mhand from set 1, score 95
4)item name LunarScimitar in slot ohand from set 1, score 72.5
5)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 80
6)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 80
7)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 80
Item set attribute summary : rdef +0%, iatk +175%, ratk +145%, catk +295%, rhp +27.5%, Total army boost = 642.5 %

=====================================================================================================================================================
*Army composition : infantry + cavalry + ranged
Looking for item combinations to maximize stats : chp cdef catk ratk ihp idef iatk

Best item set score you can get by heavy monster hunting + buying item packs:
0)item name BumbleHelm in slot helm from set QueenBee, score 400
1)item name Firewall in slot body from set MechaTrojan, score 325
2)item name StormTasset in slot feet from set TidalTitan, score 390
3)item name Skullcrusher in slot mhand from set HellDrider, score 300
4)item name EternalCodex in slot ohand from set GrimReaper, score 325
5)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 287.5
6)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 287.5
7)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 287.5
Item set attribute summary : cdef +20%, idef +45%, iatk +625%, ratk +875%, catk +650%, ihp +225%, chp +162.5%, Total army boost = 2602.5 %

Best item set if you are a casual player that hardly spends money on the game :
0)item name BloodStained_Gargantua in slot helm from set 2, score 68
1)item name ArmorOfTheAbyss_Helldrider in slot body from set 2, score 92.5
2)item name QueenHoneycomb in slot feet from set 2, score 120
3)item name Dragon_sBite in slot mhand from set 2, score 100
4)item name LunarScimitar in slot ohand from set 1, score 100
5)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 80
6)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 80
7)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 80
Item set attribute summary : cdef +8%, idef +5%, iatk +195%, ratk +130%, catk +245%, ihp +52.5%, chp +85%, Total army boost = 720.5 %

=====================================================================================================================================================
*Army composition : cavalry + ranged
Looking for item combinations to maximize stats : chp cdef catk ratk

Best item set score you can get by heavy monster hunting + buying item packs:
0)item name BumbleHelm in slot helm from set QueenBee, score 350
1)item name HardenedCarapace in slot body from set QueenBee, score 260
2)item name GargantuanBelt in slot feet from set Gargantua, score 267.5
3)item name Skullcrusher in slot mhand from set HellDrider, score 275
4)item name EternalCodex in slot ohand from set GrimReaper, score 325
5)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 125
6)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 125
7)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 125
Item set attribute summary : cdef +25%, ratk +1000%, catk +660%, chp +167.5%, Total army boost = 1852.5 %

Best item set if you are a casual player that hardly spends money on the game :
0)item name BloodStained_Gargantua in slot helm from set 2, score 68
1)item name ArmorOfTheAbyss_Helldrider in slot body from set 2, score 62.5
2)item name QueenHoneycomb in slot feet from set 2, score 120
3)item name FalconGale in slot mhand from set 1, score 75
4)item name LunarScimitar in slot ohand from set 1, score 72.5
5)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 40
6)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 40
7)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 40
Item set attribute summary : cdef +8%, ratk +155%, catk +295%, chp +60%, Total army boost = 518 %

=====================================================================================================================================================
*Army composition : infantry + ranged
Looking for item combinations to maximize stats : ihp idef iatk ratk

Best item set score you can get by heavy monster hunting + buying item packs:
0)item name BumbleHelm in slot helm from set QueenBee, score 200
1)item name HedonicCuiras in slot body from set BonApeti, score 325
2)item name DragonsTalons in slot feet from set Blackwing, score 287.5
3)item name DecadentSword in slot mhand from set BonApeti, score 275
4)item name EternalCodex in slot ohand from set GrimReaper, score 175
5)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 287.5
6)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 287.5
7)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 287.5
Item set attribute summary : idef +0%, iatk +725%, ratk +1100%, ihp +300%, Total army boost = 2125 %

Best item set if you are a casual player that hardly spends money on the game :
0)item name BerserkerTuskHelm in slot helm from set 1, score 35
1)item name GrimmyPlate_GrimReaper in slot body from set 2, score 62.5
2)item name CorruptedBoots in slot feet from set 2, score 60
3)item name VenomStinger in slot mhand from set 1, score 75
4)item name LunarScimitar in slot ohand from set 1, score 72.5
5)item name LostIslandsRelic in slot trinket from set 1, score 65
6)item name LostIslandsRelic in slot trinket from set 1, score 65
7)item name LostIslandsRelic in slot trinket from set 1, score 65
Item set attribute summary : idef +20%, iatk +255%, ratk +160%, ihp +65%, Total army boost = 500 %

=====================================================================================================================================================
*Army composition : cavalry
Looking for item combinations to maximize stats : chp cdef catk

Best item set score you can get by heavy monster hunting + buying item packs:
0)item name BumbleHelm in slot helm from set QueenBee, score 200
1)item name Firewall in slot body from set MechaTrojan, score 187.5
2)item name GargantuanBelt in slot feet from set Gargantua, score 267.5
3)item name HornCudgel in slot mhand from set Gargantua, score 165
4)item name DragonsFist in slot ohand from set Blackwing, score 160
5)item name FearDrum in slot trinket from set Gargantua, score 92.5
6)item name FearDrum in slot trinket from set Gargantua, score 92.5
7)item name FearDrum in slot trinket from set Gargantua, score 92.5
Item set attribute summary : cdef +30%, catk +985%, chp +242.5%, Total army boost = 1257.5 %

Best item set if you are a casual player that hardly spends money on the game :
0)item name BloodStained_Gargantua in slot helm from set 2, score 68
1)item name ArmorOfTheAbyss_Helldrider in slot body from set 2, score 37.5
2)item name QueenHoneycomb in slot feet from set 2, score 60
3)item name FalconGale in slot mhand from set 1, score 50
4)item name FrostwingShield in slot ohand from set 2, score 32
5)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 40
6)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 40
7)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 40
Item set attribute summary : cdef +20%, catk +295%, chp +52.5%, Total army boost = 367.5 %

=====================================================================================================================================================
*Army composition : infantry
Looking for item combinations to maximize stats : ihp idef iatk

Best item set score you can get by heavy monster hunting + buying item packs:
0)item name BeastHelm in slot helm from set Saberfang, score 187.5
1)item name TerrorShield in slot body from set TerrorThorn, score 275
2)item name StormTasset in slot feet from set TidalTitan, score 195
3)item name DecadentSword in slot mhand from set BonApeti, score 150
4)item name WinterMits in slot ohand from set SnowBeast, score 119.5
5)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 162.5
6)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 162.5
7)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 162.5
Item set attribute summary : idef +77%, iatk +975%, ihp +362.5%, Total army boost = 1414.5 %

Best item set if you are a casual player that hardly spends money on the game :
0)item name BerserkerTuskHelm in slot helm from set 1, score 35
1)item name GrimmyPlate_GrimReaper in slot body from set 2, score 62.5
2)item name CorruptedBoots in slot feet from set 2, score 60
3)item name Dragon_sBite in slot mhand from set 2, score 75
4)item name TerrorBlade in slot ohand from set 2, score 57
5)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 40
6)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 40
7)item name AquaAnemone in slot trinket from set 2, score 40
Item set attribute summary : idef +32%, iatk +330%, ihp +47.5%, Total army boost = 409.5 %

=====================================================================================================================================================
*Army composition : ranged
Looking for item combinations to maximize stats : rdef rhp ratk

Best item set score you can get by heavy monster hunting + buying item packs:
0)item name WyrmboneCoronet in slot helm from set JadeWyrm, score 210
1)item name HardenedCarapace in slot body from set QueenBee, score 135
2)item name DragonsTalons in slot feet from set Blackwing, score 187.5
3)item name NectarOrb in slot mhand from set JadeWyrm, score 192.5
4)item name EternalCodex in slot ohand from set GrimReaper, score 175
5)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 162.5
6)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 162.5
7)item name AmbrosialCup in slot trinket from set BonApeti, score 162.5
Item set attribute summary : rdef +30%, ratk +1110%, rhp +247.5%, Total army boost = 1387.5 %

Best item set if you are a casual player that hardly spends money on the game :
0)item name Deathgazer in slot helm from set 1, score 16
1)item name ArmorOfTheAbyss_Helldrider in slot body from set 2, score 25
2)item name QueenHoneycomb in slot feet from set 2, score 60
3)item name Harbringer in slot mhand from set 2, score 50
4)item name LunarScimitar in slot ohand from set 1, score 72.5
5)item name LostIslandsRelic in slot trinket from set 1, score 35
6)item name LostIslandsRelic in slot trinket from set 1, score 35
7)item name LostIslandsRelic in slot trinket from set 1, score 35
Item set attribute summary : rdef +26%, ratk +260%, rhp +42.5%, Total army boost = 328.5 %
 
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#2
Posted on 2017-05-04 03:56:30 | Show thread starter's posts only

I wanted to post this in elite trainer section. Can a mod please move it ?

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#3
Posted on 2017-05-04 05:40:56 | Show thread starter's posts only

You claim:

" Boosting attack also helps you survive more troops. More troops than investing in defense or HP"

But your calculations say something else:

1000 infantry  vs 1000 infantry = 784 infantry survived vs 784 infantry survived
1000 infantry  vs 1000 infantry = 788 infantry survived/728 infantry survived(attacker has 20% atk boost)
1000 infantry  vs 1000 infantry = 792 infantry survived/780 infantry survived(attacker has 20% def boost)

Are both accounts equal? Without a controlled testing environment and battle reports these numbers are useless.

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#4
Posted on 2017-05-04 06:13:32 | Show thread starter's posts only

yes, both accounts are equal. there is 1% defense buff from barracks. There are no items, no buffs, no jewels, no heroes...nothing involved. 2 new accounts. One makes the camp, the other attacks it.
You are right, i removed the "more troops" part since i can not back it up with numbers. The idea is that attack scales faster than HP or defense. After a while the simple coefficient will make it scale over defense or HP. But that is just a theory. And infantry is defense based, so you might be right that defense is better for him.
Ranged scales 3 times better with attack than infantry, you can already see that at 1000 troops and 20% attack, the defense benefit of attack is over defense ( attack saves more lives than defense ).

Anyone should be able to obtain the same results. Just to be sure i will rerun the tests later today and i should get the same ones.

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#5
Posted on 2017-05-04 06:46:21 | Show thread starter's posts only

Having played Game of War and Mobile Strike my theory is that defense migates a fixed amount of damage (just like the wall) and it scales exponentially as your army's numbers increase. That's why DEF is better when defending.

ATK and HP is better for attacking because when you attack you can only send a limited amount of troops and it's always someone your own size or bigger (in terms of troop count) In other words: when you're getting outnumbered defense doesn't do much. 

Unlike attacking, when defending you can defend with an infinite amount of troops that's why once you can kill the entire march defense becomes equally or even more important than ATK (to save troop losses) 

I ran alot of controlled tests with 2 identical accounts to prove this theory, but the numbers just don't make any sense if you test with a small amount of troops. Will test it again once my trap account got more troops.

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#6
Posted on 2017-05-04 07:35:33 | Show thread starter's posts only

Played some mobile strike. Indeed game engine seems to be almost the same.

Sadly i have only 2 samples :

without any buffs : -> kill power increased based on troop count by 8%
1000i vs 1000i    784/784 -> kill power is 0.216 versus 0.216
100i vs 100i       80/80 -> kill power is 0.20 versus 0.20


using 20% def buff : -> kill power increased based on troop count by 10% ( note that 20% def will have a plain 2% result inflience. 8%+2% = 10% difference )
1000i vs 1000i    792/780 -> kill power is 0.220 versus 0.208
100i vs 100i       75/80 -> kill power is 0.20 versus 0.25

using 20% atk buff
1000i vs 1000i    728/788 -> kill power is 0.272 versus 0.212
- missing a test here

It seems buffs scale liniarly ( not exponentially ) with troop count. If buffs would have scaled exponentially with troop count than kill power should have jumped to at least 0.24 from 0.2.
What gives the feeling of the exponential scaling formula is the troop count imbalances. Since combat is fought in multiple steps, the differences add up exponentially. But that is another story. let me back it up with numbers :
100i/50i=95i/26i kill power 0.24
200i/100i=188i/48i kill power 0.26
300i / 150i                283/74
400i/200i                376/96
500i/250i                471/118
1000i/500i                936/236 kill power 0.264 vs 0.128

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#7
Posted on 2017-05-04 08:40:15 | Show thread starter's posts only

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#8
Posted on 2017-05-04 08:59:24 | Show thread starter's posts only

When I test DEF I'm not interested in enemy troops killed or killpower. I'm only interested in my own troops saved. In that regard (minimize troop losses) I believe DEF scales exponentially. ATK however does not. ATK and DEF are two different game mechanics.

And because it scales exponentially DEF is better to minimize troop losses when defending than ATK and HP, because you can defend with an unlimited amount of troops.

If ATK is always better than DEF like everyone says it is then why did the devs add DEF boost to the game? That doesn't make sense. The bigger your army the more effective DEF becomes. That's why ATK for attacking and DEF for defending (assuming your defending army is big enough to kill the incoming march)

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#9
Posted on 2017-05-04 09:51:17 | Show thread starter's posts only

The only way to prove this is through numbers not theories. If defense scales exponentially then try with 1000, 2000, 5000 and 10000 troops and test your theory on all those levels. Use only identical accounts and no heroes involved... Same research and buildings. Both with battle fury buffs to make it the same.

Both of you need to prove using numbers only.

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#10
Posted on 2017-05-04 10:23:14 | Show thread starter's posts only

Agreed. I have two identical ALTS. Same military research. Same VIP level. T3 INF unlocked. Let me know wich numbers you like to see tested and I'll get on it.

@Tudi
You either need to build a barrack or destroy a barrack on the other account because the accounts are not identical. Then post your numbers again with battle reports.

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